moke body number question....

[janz]

My 64 Moke has an AMB body number:

Build date 10th November 1964. Yes that is original paint I think early Moke shells have the AMB numbers and later ones - possibly Mk2 had the distinction between Austin and Morris - AB or MB. It would be interesting to check this out further. Note that the plate type and lettering is different between the two as well. My heritage certificate confirms Commission, engine and chassis number. I have no doubt that the body number matches the lot. I would think that James indeed has a Mk1 body with Mk2 internals (well, not him personally of course )

[Tim]

I wonder what the N on the end means. My theory that the L stood for Longbridge doesn't seen to hold up, unless there was another plant coded by N, Nuffield maybe?. Some Morris Minis that were built at Austin's Longbridge plant have an L at the end of their body numbers.

Tim

[janz]

I don't think the last letter signifies a specific factory or plant. If you look at Gijs' post there is a picture of a page in the body parts manual. It actually shows the first body as an example AMB000101N where N can be a host of different letters stated as 'BMC internal reference'. One thing I have noticed on some other Mokes, I have only seen very early bodyshells that have the AMB number. There after I have seen Morris with MB numbers and Austins with AB numbers. We know that Longbridge started to produce Mokes before Cowley and that both brands (A and M - although not many) were made in Longbridge at the same time. Perhaps it is that these shells were designated AMB numbers as it wasn't decided at production start which shell would be an Austin or which would be a Morris. Once each plant made their respective brand, numbers could then have changed to MB and AB.... additionally, the backstamp font changed at the same time. Anyway, just a possible theory.... and possibly complete ~@>+$%£

[PJ]

We know that Longbridge started to produce Mokes before Cowley and that both brands (A and M - although not many) were made in Longbridge at the same time. Perhaps it is that these shells were designated AMB numbers as it wasn't decided at production start which shell would be an Austin or which would be a Morris.

I was talking to an ex-Longbridge worker recently who claimed to remember truck loads of Moke bodies queued up outside the CABs (Car Assembly Buildings) having been brought in from Castle Bromwich. If it is true that the bodies were built by Pressed Steel Fisher at Castle Bromwich (can anyone confirm this?) then this makes sense. PSF would allocate and fit body number plates and if they were despatching to Longbridge who were building both Austin and Morris versions, they would have no knowledge as to whether any particular shell would finish up as an A or an M so they would need a 'universal' code. Later, when Austins were built at Longbridge and Morrisses at Cowley, PSF would doubtless know which bodies were going to which destination and be able to code them appropriately.

[Gijzzy]

I think early Moke shells have the AMB numbers and later ones - possibly Mk2 had the distinction between Austin and Morris - AB or MB. It would be interesting to check this out further. Note that the plate type and lettering is different between the two as well.

Not completely true, mine body number picture with 'different' lettering is a MK I (Date of build: 20 October 1965) .

My heritage certificate confirms Commission, engine and chassis number.

My heritage certificate does not include commission number (and no body number) ? Would there be a possibility to get it any way? Does Mark Peacock has got this info?

[janz]

Good point Gijs, but if I'm not mistaken, by that time (1965) Cowley was building its Morris Mokes and Longbridge its Austins, hence whoever made the bodies - PJ, I have heard something similar about Pressed Steel, might have been you actually - would know were the bodies were going. As you mentioned, yours is a Mk1 and for sure by Mk2 each plant was making their respective Mokes. So if the theory is right, it would only apply to a time when both were made in Longbridge. Also, I think it would be reasonable to assume that the body build date and the factory assembly date could be quite different i.e. it would not be unreasonable to think that bodies could be left hanging around the plant for quite a while undetected. PJ, you have 1st hand extended experience of Longbridge... I've spent quite a lot of time there (Rover 25/45/MGF and final edition Mini) to know that 'anything can happen - and probably will..... in some shape or form if not at all'

If it is true that the bodies were built by Pressed Steel Fisher at Castle Bromwich (can anyone confirm this?) then this makes sense.

I think the answer to this question could significantly help towards uncovering the mystery. With your contacts PJ......

[Gijzzy]

I was talking to an ex-Longbridge worker recently who claimed to remember truck loads of Moke bodies queued up outside the CABs (Car Assembly Buildings) having been brought in from Castle Bromwich. If it is true that the bodies were built by Pressed Steel Fisher at Castle Bromwich (can anyone confirm this?) then this makes sense.

Last year I did the Jaguar Factory tour in Castle Bromwich and the tour guide (somewhere in his 70's) told me they were 'making' mini's in that factory area. I assume they were not assembling. I believe he said they were making moke's as well, but at this point I'm not sure anymore.

[janz]

My heritage certificate does not include commission number (and no body number) ? Would there be a possibility to get it any way? Does Mark Peacock has got this info?

Gijs, I understand that BMIHT will include or research Commission and body numbers but at an extra cost. I would check with Mark.
I would be quite interested myself. I have no reason to doubt that the body number on mine is OK - 489. The commission number is (A)15B000432L. If the sequence is continuous and the AMB theory is correct, we could even guess that at the time of it's assembly, 57 Morris Mokes were built in Longbridge. Trying to make a story fit or what

What we need is a 64 Morris Moke with AMB body number... then check the commission number - also see if the internal use character L changes or stays the same.

[tdiesel464]

Hi Guys

To add some more confusion, Mini's and Moke's were also assembled here in Malta !! At the time they were assembled only for the local market. But many have been recently exported to the Uk.

So I am sure there are a few Moke's in the Uk which were assembled in Malta. In fact recently I saw a wine/red Moke for sale on ebay and in the advert it was stated that it was bought from I quote "The sunny island of Malta "

I wonder if one can tell if a Moke was assembled in Malta ? I do know that they used to add on a Badge with the Maltese cross or flag, but I doubt these emblems are still attached to any cars !!

[Bodge]

Later, when Austins were built at Longbridge and Morrisses at Cowley

It has always been my understanding that the vast majority of both Austin and Morris Mokes were assembled at Longbridge and most authors who have written about the production of Minis say the same. I do know that a very few Mokes were assembled at Cowley but thought that this was only very late in 1968 towards the end of production.

Do you have new information about Cowley built Mokes? Morris Mini Coopers built at Longbridge have a suffix "A" after the chassis number and both my 1967 Austin Moke and 1968 Morris Moke follow suit and have an "A" at the end of their chassis numbers. If any English Mokes were built at Cowley, then they should have the suffix "M". However I have myself never come across one.

Fisher and Ludlow were involved with the tooling for the Moke prototypes and I think it highly likely that the bodyshells were produced by Pressed Steel as they merged with BMC in 1966. Fisher & Ludlow was similarly merged with Pressed Steel in 1968 to form PSF. At the Mini 50 I spoke to a man who used to spot weld the Mokes together. He said that on average he could assemble 10 or 11 in a night shift.
Roger

[PJ]

Just to avoid causing any confusion, I have no evidence that Mokes of either brand were built at Cowley. I just assumed this was confirmed as fact:

We know that Longbridge started to produce Mokes before Cowley

I should have written:

I was talking to an ex-Longbridge worker recently who claimed to remember truck loads of Moke bodies queued up outside the CABs (Car Assembly Buildings) having been brought in from Castle Bromwich. If it is true that the bodies were built by Pressed Steel Fisher at Castle Bromwich (can anyone confirm this?) then this makes sense. PSF would allocate and fit body number plates and if they were despatching to Longbridge who were building both Austin and Morris versions, they would have no knowledge as to whether any particular shell would finish up as an A or an M so they would need a 'universal' code. #FF0000]IF later, Austins were built at Longbridge and Morrisses at Cowley[/color], PSF would doubtless know which bodies were going to which destination and be able to code them appropriately.

I am trying a new contact to find where bodies were built: Castle Bromwich, Longbridge, Cowley or elsewhere - I'll post anything I can dig out.

Fisher and Ludlow were involved with the tooling for the Moke prototypes and I think it highly likely that the bodyshells were produced by Pressed Steel as they merged with BMC in 1966. Fisher & Ludlow was similarly merged with Pressed Steel in 1968 to form PSF. .....Roger

Fisher & Ludlow were aquired by BMC in Sept 1953 and were already building the Champ body for shipment to Longbridge where assembly took place in the East Works: this could be seen as setting a precedent for Moke production - except that I believe that by 1964 East Works had become the 'A' series engine/gearbox factory (was when I started in 1973) and the Mokes were built in CAB1

[janz]

Hmmmm, I suppose that as Minis were produced at both plants (L and C) as Austins and Morrisses respectively it is easy to assume that the same went for Moke. I have spend 'some' time looking for evidence of Cowley Moke production or pictures of Cowley Moke Vin plates and am drawing a blank. Perhaps they were generally all built in Longbridge... Ok well, how does it go......? 'bang goes the theory' I always assumed Mokes were made in Cowley as well. I will ask some locals if they can confirm if a few were made at the end of English Moke production....
Isn't that one of the reasons why we love Mokes.... you learn, dispell or get confused everyday

[Tim]

With Mk1 Minis there is a method for determining which factory they were built in, and it should work for Mokes. Longbridge used studs and nuts on the subframe towers and Cowley used bolts. As far as I can tell its the only obvious difference (apart from the old one about which way up the ignition key slot was).

Tim

[janz]

Unfortunately, I do not have an English Morris Moke to compare Stilllllllll, one day......... Lottery win, wherefore art thou lottery win

[Nigel(no top)Sykes]

Wern't we supposed to be putting things like this in the "Today I'm mostly waiting for" listing