Engine removed to fix oil leaks - what else to do?

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PIMCO
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Engine removed to fix oil leaks - what else to do?

Post by PIMCO » Sat May 02, 2020 21:48

Hello! Hope everyone are well during these pandemic times.

I just yanked the 850 out of my '67 Moke in order to replace and strengthen the motor mounts as well as try to pin down all leaks.

I have bought a couple of the comprehensive seals and gasket kits, but I don't think it's rational to just start replacing it all. I cleaned off years of oil gunk from the engine block, but the overall extent of the oil leftovers makes it hard to pinpoint any one area/seal. So, which seals and gaskets are considered the most susceptible?

How difficult is it to get to the timing chain cover gasket? How about the gasket between the block and the tranny assembly, and is this worth messing with? How about a procedure for replacing the various seals on the transmission (selector shaft, drive shafts, etc.)? How about crankshaft seals?

Also, is there anything else I should consider doing now that engine is out and access is superior? (obviously will thoroughly clean engine bay and bulkhead)

Nigel(no top)Sykes
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Re: Engine removed to fix oil leaks - what else to do?

Post by Nigel(no top)Sykes » Sun May 03, 2020 12:51

The engine/gearbox gasket and oil pickup rubber seal don’t usually give any problems so I’d leave well alone there....Unless there’s a leak round the crankshaft seal. The timing case is fairly easy to do once the crank pulley is off so it’s probably worth doing.
At the other end of the engine if you take the flywheel cover off and find amounts of oil in the housing it means the primary gear oil seal needs doing ( a fun job indeed)
Other than that there’s the output shaft seals, tappet chest cover seals and while not strictly a seal it’s always easier to whip the water pump off and fit a new bypass hose while the engine is out, try using a nice new piece of heater hose if you haven’t got one that’s made for the job, definitely NOT one of those concertina type ones.....they are an emergency get you home fitment at

I’m sure someone else will remember the ones I’ve forgotten
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PIMCO
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Re: Engine removed to fix oil leaks - what else to do?

Post by PIMCO » Tue May 05, 2020 9:15

Thanks for the pointers!

Is the crank seal(s) two-piece for easy replacement? Which end is more leak susceptible? Does the primary gear oil seal (not sure if I bought this) require any special tools? Do you mean the stubby rubber hose between the water pump and block/thermostat housing?

By the way, is there a workshop manual available online with exploded part diagrams and bolt torque requirements? This would be very helpful.

Also, attaching some pics of the underside and motor in case you guys have a better chance of identifying the leak culprits than me (note the whole tranny is fairly moist).
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grantourer
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Re: Engine removed to fix oil leaks - what else to do?

Post by grantourer » Tue May 05, 2020 11:22

Hi. I would suggest you buy Haynes Manual for the Mini. Covers the mechanics, make sure you get the early one 1959 on. eBay is good place to get one.
Regards, Graham & Judith
1981 Aussie Moke
1989 Portuguese Moke
1992 VW T3 Multivan LLE No 2113

Nigel(no top)Sykes
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Re: Engine removed to fix oil leaks - what else to do?

Post by Nigel(no top)Sykes » Tue May 05, 2020 20:39

I’d second the Haynes suggestion, it’s a bit old school but it’s safer than a laptop when crawling under the car :lol:
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PIMCO
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Re: Engine removed to fix oil leaks - what else to do?

Post by PIMCO » Wed May 06, 2020 16:56

Will keep my eyes out for a Haynes manual then. Otherwise I found these kind of useful: https://www.minimania.com/Downloads.cfm

I was somewhat dismayed to realize that out of the three gasket kits I had bought - none included the tappet chest cover gaskets. I see there is an option for ork and rubber seals, also a distinction between 1966 and older/newer. Which ones do I need?

Also, took the clutch cover off (see photo) and found a fair amount of gunk, especially behind the flywheel. How elaborate is it to take off the clutch and replace the crank seals, is it worth the hassle?
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grantourer
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Re: Engine removed to fix oil leaks - what else to do?

Post by grantourer » Wed May 06, 2020 17:24

Hi. Sounds like your crankshaft oil seal is weeping/leaking. Should you want to remove the flywheel you will need a puller. Also it is imperative that the engine is set to Top Dead Centre, as the C shaped washer holding the gear on the crank shaft will obstruct the fly wheel and it will jam. Get hold of the Haynes Manual, it will help you.
Regards, Graham & Judith
1981 Aussie Moke
1989 Portuguese Moke
1992 VW T3 Multivan LLE No 2113

Nigel(no top)Sykes
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Re: Engine removed to fix oil leaks - what else to do?

Post by Nigel(no top)Sykes » Wed May 06, 2020 18:28

I know what you mean about the tappet chest seals. I’ve got a 1964 model and bought a set of rubber and a set of cork. In theory the cork ones should be the ones to fit.....but they didn’t so I ended up using the bright red rubber ones!! Don’t forget the little rubber seals and cup washers for the bolts, I did and it was a pain in the backside fitting them when the engine was back in until I modified the bolts that is :D
The flywheel :shock: That’ll be a puller as graham says, lock it with a small spanner or suchlike through the starter motor hole and get ready for the BANG and rapidly moving weight when it finally goes.
As said earlier....Haynes manual
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PIMCO
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Re: Engine removed to fix oil leaks - what else to do?

Post by PIMCO » Fri May 08, 2020 15:29

Thanks for the pointers, guys. I do have the clutch seal laying around, but no puller. Not sure if I want to get into this job, and if I do I might as well replace the clutch disc as well.

Great point on the rubber seals and cup washers, mine had neither (just one busted plastic washer) so I actually wouldn't know. Guess I will order both the rubber and cork version to be sure. They do look identical but there is something about convexity that I don't really get.

I see that most tranny related leaks are related to a bottom seal on the rod change style units. Are the magic wand trannies fairly leak immune, because the linkage is all on top? I will replace the output shaft seals anyhow.

Nigel(no top)Sykes
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Re: Engine removed to fix oil leaks - what else to do?

Post by Nigel(no top)Sykes » Fri May 08, 2020 15:58

Just out of interest if/when you do the clutch seal.....proper name is primary gear oil seal btw.....You will see that you have to tape up the primary gear teeth or the seal will probably leak again. There is a special tool for doing the job, it makes it a lot easier and ensures the seal goes in straight.
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grantourer
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Re: Engine removed to fix oil leaks - what else to do?

Post by grantourer » Fri May 08, 2020 19:01

The tool Nigel is referring too is this one:- http://www.somerfordmini.co.uk/eshop/in ... ts_id=8129
To pull the flywheel off you need a puller:- http://www.somerfordmini.co.uk/eshop/in ... ts_id=7319

The job is not difficult, as you have the engine out, as Nigel says, replace the clutch at the same time. The seal will only get worse, and is doable with the engine in the Moke, but much easier with the engine out.
Regards, Graham & Judith
1981 Aussie Moke
1989 Portuguese Moke
1992 VW T3 Multivan LLE No 2113

Nigel(no top)Sykes
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Posts: 4814
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 21:04
Location: In t’ north

Re: Engine removed to fix oil leaks - what else to do?

Post by Nigel(no top)Sykes » Fri May 08, 2020 21:08

This is an example of an early one
5287C7E8-42C6-4B1C-8647-80C84FA1EFAB.jpeg
And this is a later type
08FB9C11-59E3-47D8-A9D6-80184AF56B7F.jpeg
Do you see the difference.
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PIMCO
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Re: Engine removed to fix oil leaks - what else to do?

Post by PIMCO » Mon May 18, 2020 19:01

Thanks for the pointers. I went ahead and ordered a Haynes manual, so probably less ignorant questions from me in the future :D

If you see the circled area of the attached photo it could look like the differential output covers could be a source of the leak? Do I have to mess with pre-load and bearings if I replace the gasket? I am already replacing the output seals.

Also decided it's a must to replace the main seal, as the clutch has (had) a tendency to slip. I'm assuming this has been due to oil residue between the disc and baking plate. I hope/reckon the main gear seal can be replaced in-situ with the housing on the motor?

Is the timing chain back-plate a source of leaks? It looks somewhat elaborate to replace any gasket against the block. How about the half-moon seal between engine/tranny? What is required to get to this and is it worth it?

Lastly, I am curious about the chunk on the LHD of the motor where the speedo gear enters. What is this and is it worth taking apart to replace the gasket?
IMG_20190324_150629.jpg
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