Single 4WD Mokes 2

Discussions relating to pre-production prototype Mokes.
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59Prototype
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Post by 59Prototype » Tue Oct 14, 2014 17:27

Mention is made here under this topic about wheel sizes so the following might be of interest.

One of the photographs in the Moke 50 book is of a 4WD prototype that went to the States for evaluation. Off the top of my head I think it was chassis number 1033/AM. The photo was from the Jack Daniels collection that his daughter kindly made available to us. The wheels were certainly not 10" so I set out to find what they were. They looked to be 13" but that raised the question as to whether the experimental workshop had had them specially made or had they come off another vehicle which we presumed would have been an Austin? A bit of Googling found the answer. They were exactly the same as fitted to the Austin A30/A35. The A30 was introduced in 1952 so the design of the wheel goes back at least until then. My guess is that it actually left the drawing board around 1950.

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Post by spider » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:12

59Prototype wrote:Mention is made here under this topic about wheel sizes so the following might be of interest.

One of the photographs in the Moke 50 book is of a 4WD prototype that went to the States for evaluation. Off the top of my head I think it was chassis number 1033/AM. The photo was from the Jack Daniels collection that his daughter kindly made available to us. The wheels were certainly not 10" so I set out to find what they were. They looked to be 13" but that raised the question as to whether the experimental workshop had had them specially made or had they come off another vehicle which we presumed would have been an Austin? A bit of Googling found the answer. They were exactly the same as fitted to the Austin A30/A35. The A30 was introduced in 1952 so the design of the wheel goes back at least until then. My guess is that it actually left the drawing board around 1950.
Sorry to the OP for going off topic

This one?

Image

I'm pretty sure that one had 12" wheels.
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Post by 4XMOKE » Sun Oct 19, 2014 13:35

Spider,
No, not that Twini, '59 Prototype means the one on pages 58/60 of Moke The History book, 1033AM, single engine 4WD.

Roger G
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59Prototype
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Post by 59Prototype » Mon Oct 20, 2014 20:51

Roger is correct and the one I was referring to was this one:

Image

Note that it is LHD. Also note the prototype chassis number on the side panel. That's actually unusual, the first photo I have seen of a prototype in which this was done. A final point. Look at the centre of the rear wheel. Proof indeed that it was 4WD!


Graham

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Tim
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Post by Tim » Mon Oct 20, 2014 23:16

What were the two holes for in the A30 wheels, brake adjustment?

Tim
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Post by 59Prototype » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:37

Tim, I'm no expert on the A30 or A35 but I'm sure you are right.

Have a look at these photos
Image
Image

I think that they were more or less the same whether A30, A35, A40 or early Midget.

Clearly the holes are visible. With the wheel on and car jacked up it looks as though you need to line up the hole in the wheel, the hole in the drum and then the hole in brake shoe to then get your screwdriver in to adjust the brake. The intention was good but I bet in practice it didn't work very well. My guess is that they abandoned this idea when working on the Mini in favour of doing the adjustment via the back plate. With those holes in the wheel and drum surely water must have got in? In any case how many times have you tried to adjust the brakes on a Moke and then had to take the drum off because the thread on the adjuster screw was tight?!
Last edited by 59Prototype on Wed Oct 22, 2014 22:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Tim
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Post by Tim » Wed Oct 22, 2014 19:12

Looks like there's something that screws out on the end of each wheel cylinder. I bet its fiddly!

Tim
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59Prototype
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Post by 59Prototype » Wed Oct 22, 2014 22:21

What we really need here is an expert on A35s!

At a guess I would say that the A35 (and A30, etc.) had a threaded bolt that was accessed from the front and the bolt when screwed in operated a cam that gradually adjusted the brake shoe. In principle it was the same idea on the Mini (and obviously the Moke) but the adjusting screw was accessed from the rear of the hub assembly rather than from the front.

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Post by Wally2 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 15:49

I think that you had to access the 'castle' wheel at the top (and bottom on the other one) of the cylinder and using a screwdriver, rotate it, by pushing or levering against the drum, which then lifted the piston and adjusted the shoe. The picture looks odd because the spring held on by the 2 bolts usually pressed against the 'castle' wheel to prevent it rotating freely, but in the picture it doesn't seem to reach the wheel?
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Post by spider » Thu Oct 23, 2014 18:08

They are similar to many of the early Japanese stuff, like this one from an early Landcruiser;-

Image

I also seem to have a recollection that even some of our earlier Holdens also had a similar set up, only these were adjusted from the back, rather than going through the drum.
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Post by Tim » Thu Oct 23, 2014 23:12

Yes, thats what I thought. My Mum's old Corona had something similar at the back, but you had to poke the screwdriver in through the backplate.

Wow, we've taken this off topic!

Tim
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Post by Nigel(no top)Sykes » Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:07

At a tangent :!:
At least can add up

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Re: Single 4WD Mokes 2

Post by 59Prototype » Fri Oct 24, 2014 13:35

Wow, that's good. I nod off for a few hours kip here in Brazil to wake up and find that the 'Ozzies and others' brigade have been beavering away sorting out this thread on the forum! I'm now up to speed with it all and agree that it was a wise move to shift all the 'stick a screwdriver in that hole' stuff to a new thread! I'm as guilty as the rest of you for taking the thread off track.


So where was I ........................?

I can only repeat what I said earlier, having holes in wheels, brake drums and brake shoes to adjust the brakes from the front is only asking for trouble and you can see why it was abandoned in favour of adjustment from the rear. Mind you it's still difficult at times getting the adjuster screw to work from the rear. Take away the muck and water that that area of the vehicle encounters on a regular basis and adjustment becomes a doddle.

It reminds me of something that the late W J (Jack) Daniels once told me. It was now a few years ago that I had the conversation with him but it was something to do with the rear radius arms of Minis that went to Canada. Apparently in Canada they have some sort of mud that is really sticky (you learn something new everyday don't you!). This mud was somehow clogging up the rear radius arms and Jack was asked to find a solution. Regretfully I now can't remember what the answer was but knowing Jack I bet he came up with a way round it!

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Re: Single 4WD Mokes 2

Post by spider » Fri Oct 24, 2014 20:04

59Prototype wrote: It reminds me of something that the late W J (Jack) Daniels once told me. It was now a few years ago that I had the conversation with him but it was something to do with the rear radius arms of Minis that went to Canada. Apparently in Canada they have some sort of mud that is really sticky (you learn something new everyday don't you!). This mud was somehow clogging up the rear radius arms and Jack was asked to find a solution. Regretfully I now can't remember what the answer was but knowing Jack I bet he came up with a way round it!
If the mud was anything like the black soil plains - when wet - we have, yeap, I know the stuff all too well. Ours also has something it it that we have found out reacts with enamel based paints, works as en excellent paint stripper!

It really does stick, I call it 'Klingon Mud';-

Image

here's one way of getting good mileage for one's tyres;-

Image
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Re: Single 4WD Mokes 2

Post by 4XMOKE » Sat Oct 25, 2014 18:00

Spider,
Hell, wet concrete doesn't stick that well. That's like my Granddad's porridge, immoveable from any known surface!

I clearly need to bring my Moke to Aus for testing.....


Roger G
My other car is a Moke......
My other Moke is an Ant....

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