Loosening stuck flywheel & other clutch replacement questions

[MurphysCreekBloke]

Hi Guys,

I thought I’d reach out for some advice re a clutch replacement.

The vehicle is a 1971 Moke, 1098cc manual. The previous owner had a gearbox rebuild and clutch kit installed in 2011. The clutch has started slipping, hence why I’m pulling it down now.

I’ve purchased the flywheel puller kit. The first snag was I wasn’t able to remove the keyed washer after removing the flywheel retaining bolt. It seems to be stuck fast. So using the flywheel puller as per its instructions using the little insert for the end of the crankshaft wasn’t going to work. So I decided to use the puller without the insert, pressing on the flywheel retaining bolt after backing the bolt off 4 turns (as per the Leyland Manual procedure) to draw off the flywheel and the keyed washer together.

So far this hasn’t worked. Below is a pic of the puller in place. The puller instructions state not to use ‘excessive force’. What is ‘excessive’ force? I’m not sure how hard to tighten up the puller. Can you give me a torque setting it’s safe to go up to on the centre black bolt?

Do you have any suggestions for how to loosen the flywheel?

On another front, with respect to dismantling the clutch once the flywheel/cutch is eventually out - the Leyland manual refers to a special tool for compressing the clutch diaphragm spring while removing or replacing the stepped bolts that connect the flywheel driving straps to the diaphragm cover & backplate. As far as I can see this ’special tool’ was simply three pieces of threaded rod that screwed into the same holes as the flywheel puller, with nuts to tighten down onto the diaphragm cover.

No-where have I been able to find anyone selling or even mentioning using a substitute for these. Everyone I have read seems to simply remove or replace the stepped bolts under diaphragm spring tension. Does this actually work?

And re re-assembly, the manual uses a special tool to align the clutch driven plate on the bench, then assembles the flywheel & clutch as a unit. I has read others who place the backplate & driven plate back on the engine first, then position the flywheel and complete the clutch assembly on the engine itself. Which approach would you recommend ?

Thanks heaps

Bill (from Australia)

Puller for forum.jpg

[Nigel(no top)Sykes]

Im sure the washer has to be removed to get the flywheel off. Once upon a time when I came across one that was “stuck” as you say I ended up hammering a no longer used screwdriver in the slot to get it moving. As to the puller, as you’ve now removed the washer, tighten the puller as tight as you can then a bit more after that try beating the flywheel through the starter motor hole while rotating the flywheel.
It’s worth noting that the above is a damn sight easier with the engine out of the car and make sure you stand anywhere but in line with the flywheel, when it come off it does so with a lot of noise and violence

Looking at your picture I think you’ll be struggling to get enough access with it still installed.

[grantourer]

Question for you. Was the engine set to top dead centre before you tried to remove the flywheel? if not the C Washer can slip down and jam the flywheel.

[MurphysCreekBloke]

Absolutely it was (and still is) at TDC for cylinders 1 & 4

[Tim]

I'm experiencing the same problem. My keyed washer came out OK, but its showing signs of damage. If you can't get yours out, I'd hit it with a punch from the side near one of the ends of the slot. It should come out with enough brutality.

My puller is more heavily built than yours, and I did use excessive force on it and all I did was I strip one of the threads on the puller's studs (not in the flywheel luckily). My mechanic came and collected it with the tow-truck of shame. He has a hydraulic flywheel puller, so hopefully he can get it off. The damage to the keyed washer suggests that the flywheel has moved slightly on the crankshaft and the two parts have galled or fretted together . Hopefully I'll hear today that he has got it apart and see whether it's going to need a complete rebuild to repair the end of the crankshaft.

I've never used any special tools to remove the diaphragm spring, just loosen it evenly. Supposedly they can distort, but its only sheet metal, bolted down tight it would pull back into shape. The one that came out of mine was utterly knackered. The top part, under the hardned plate that the throwout bearing pushes on was worn down by about 5mm. No wonder I had no clutch.

When re-fitting, I just put it together in-situ. It doesn't need anything to align it. Sometimes you have to jiggle the pressure plate around a little bit with a bolt in one of its 'arms'.

Good luck!
Tim

[MurphysCreekBloke]

Thanks for all the replies & suggestions

I took the diaphragm cover off, and then it was easy to pry the keyed washer out with minimal force.

No luck with loosening the flywheel yet though.

Here's some more pics of the current state. Am rummaging around for a mechanic with a hydraulic flywheel puller but no luck so far.

for forum 4.jpg

for forum 3.jpg

for forum 2.jpg

[MurphysCreekBloke]

Hi Tim,
Did your mechanic get your flywheel off?

[Tim]

Not yet, I dropped in to visit my Moke yesterday and he said mine is next in the queue. He showed me the puller he uses, its an old 'Coxhead' brand puller. I've been looking for one for years, but they are worth a lot of money now. They were Australian made and specially designed to fit transverse engine BMC cars and to be used with the engine still in the car. They are filled with grease, which is used as the hydraulic fluid, to push on the end of the crank. He thought he'd probably need to heat the centre as well.



I'm looking forward to having a working clutch again. I just hope he doesn't find too much else wrong.

Tim

[MurphysCreekBloke]

Wow - that's superb!!
I sure hope it works.
I find two, let me know so I can buy the other one
I just had a mechanic visit today. No hydraulic pullers in sight, but he recommended getting a whole heap of heat into the flywheel boss (like up to red heat) so that looks like being the next step.

[Tim]

Heat seems to be used in desperation. Some experts advise against it - I guess it can cause other issues - but if it won't come off the next option is cutting it off and I don't fancy that.

Tim

[MurphysCreekBloke]

Yes, exactly. Last resort.....which I pray actually works otherwise it's destructive options as you say.

[weef]

When removing the flywheel with the engine fitted a good quality puller is a must with a well greased fine threaded thrust bolt.
I feel if you think you have to use heat I would go ahead and remove the engine first and try pulling without any heat.
The ammount of heat required in the confined space of the engine bay is not a good plan in my opinion.
Finding the hydraulic puller pictured in the previous post will be difficult I think, but another way to approach the problem, if you do not want to take the engine out, is to use a holesaw and cut a hole in the inner wing to allow access for an "end on" type of hydraulic puller.
The hole in the inner wing can be repaired afterwards.
Your approach really depends on what equipment you have, but removing the engine and using a decent puller may be your best option.

Ian.

[MurphysCreekBloke]

Well, heat worked. Tightened up the puller as tight as I could, then used a propane torch on the flywheel boss as advised by my mechanic who came down to my place to have a look at it. Not optimal I know, but it got it off. I was glad I had put some light chain across the flywheel between three of the housing bolts so when it did pop it was contained & I didn't have a hot flywheel dropping down onto the subframe.
The pitch of the thread on the centre bolt of the puller I bought wasn't particularly fine, so although it was well greased that may have contributed to the problem.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to the discussion here

[Tim]

Mine is off too and I'm pleased to report that the tail of the crank and the flywheel were both OK so were able to go back together. I should be back Moking again in a day or two, Unfortunately the mechanic found some problems with the ball joints when he had it on the hoist, so they are being done too.

I haven't had a chance to ask him how he got it off, but the 'coxhead' must have done the trick.

If you had access to a lathe, it would be feasible to build a compact hydraulic puller using a really short hydraulic ram that would fit between the inner wing and the flywheel. They need hardly any 'throw', you only need to move the flywheel a tiny distance for the taper to let go.

My puller came with a modified bolt to prevent the flywheel becoming an unguided missile. It is very simple, just a normal crank retaining bolt with a spacer under the head that has a smaller diameter than the hole in the flywheel. You do it up tight and it presses against the end of the crank, but leaves clearance for the flywheel to release. It has a raised bump on it that matches a hollow in the end of the fine threaded screw in the centre of the puller. The flywheel could come pinging off, but will only travel a couple of milimetres before being stopped by the head of the bolt.

Tim